I believe Allecto started here, referring to my post as "ridiculousness" and objecting to the "silencing" of Sheila Jeffreys. I'm not quite sure what silencing she's referring to, as I certainly haven't made any attempts to shut Jeffreys down. I, and many other Aussie sex workers, would like it if she'd leave us alone and go back to speaking on behalf of people who actually want her to speak on their behalf, but I am sadly very aware of the fact that my only tactic of "relying on logic and human decency to convince her" is doomed to fail. Still, there's nothing else in my arsenal. I can't silence anyone.
In comments on that thread, v says this:
Sheila is my sister.
Did i missed hexys coronation? The one where she became the official spokesperson of all sex workers everywhere?
No? I didnt think so.
... which I found as surprising as the "silencing" accusation. Unlike Jeffreys, I haven't attempted to speak on behalf of all sex workers everywhere. If you re-read my post, you'll see I was reporting on an event, and on my observation of the excitement surrounding that bag from a group of mostly women, all of whom were sex workers. I'm certainly not surprised that this has been completely ignored by Allecto and the others who have jumped aboard, but it angers me. I'm fucking sick of sex workers being considered the least important voices in discussions about sex workers, and especially in discussions about sex workers that inform policy. Therein lies my objection to Sheila Jeffreys work on sex work.
The comment I left at Allecto's reads thus:
Hi, all. Just got pointed over here by another blogger. Didn’t realise this was going on.
I’m quite genuinely glad you’ve all gained so much from Jeffrey’s writings, and feel a bond of sisterhood with her. Seriously.
But Australian sex workers have demonstrated that we don’t. And my post, in this context, wasn’t about you lot, or about any other group of women or feminists. It was about Australian sex workers, and our anger at Jeffreys’ attempts to speak for us and inform policy that actively hurts us.
I have no objection to your show of solidarity, save for that it seems to have missed the point of the “ridiculousness” it claims to respond to.
... and I stand by that. Those who have discussed the matter with me (or, ya know, bothered to read this blog) know that my stance on feminism is that it must represent all women, and that there must be a space within it for women of all types. I don't generally buy into the "doin feminism rong" memes that fly around this online world of ours.
However, just as women must be the primary voices in feminism and women's issues, sex workers must be the primary voices in sex workers rights, and in sex worker issues and legislation. It's as simple as that. If you're promoting the words of a non-sex worker whose work is constantly objected to by sex workers across this country (indeed, around the world) over the words and preferences of those actual sex workers, then yes, you are doing it wrong.
The Anti Porn Feminists blog has gotten involved in the party, and I found Jennifer Drew's comment quite telling:
Nothing new about demonising yet another radical feminist simply because she dares to speak the truth and challenge pseudo feminists and the sex industry. For centuries women who have dared to speak the truth and challenge male supremacy have been demonised.
Remember the witch hunts – because this too was all about men and their supporters using claims that certain women and girls were witches in order to steal their few possessions, property or simply just to silence them.
Another point of view would be that because Sheila Jeffreys is widely respected – yes widely respected not disrespected – this threatens male supremacists and their followers.
Sheila Jeffreys has experienced these attacks before as did Kate Millett and not of course not forgetting the late Andrea Dworkin. Catherine MacKinnon too has been subjected to virulent women-hating attacks, but male supremacists and their supporters were not able to silence them. Additionally, there are many, many radical feminists who are routinely subjected to vicious misogynistic attacks and the reason is always because women who dare to speak the truth threaten male supremacists.
Which is why there continues to be a war on women and sustained attempts to silence our voices. Control is never 100% total because the oppressed can never be totally silenced, as soon as one voice is silenced another one appears. So the war continues.
My response to that:
Jennifer Drew: It’s really not about men, the majority of the sex workers at that sex worker only conference were women. Why do you perceive sex workers distancing themselves from someone who claims to represent them but does not to be an “attack”?
And that really sums it up. The constant refrain in these posts of "support of male supremacy", "anti-womanhood" and the "demonising" of Jeffreys once more highlights that these people simply cannot see sex workers standing up for our rights and ourselves as an inherently feminist action, as an act of rebellion by women against people who ignore our protests when they speak for us. We are again erased, presented as pawns of heterosexual men when the reality is that few if any had anything to do with the event in question, or with the construction of those bags. Sex workers expressing their views and claiming to be the authority on our own lives and occupations? Nah. Instead we're referred to as a "pro-prostitution lobby" and "supporters of male supremacy". Fucking disgusting.
Witchy, at least has the decency to acknowledge us as feminist women. It's sad that that's the only positive I can find in all of this, but thanks.
I'll summarise this post in two simple sentences: Saying "She doesn't speak for us" is not slander, or a "personal attack", or "mental violence", or anything else. If you're convinced those words ARE slanderous, then I think you need to look at why you think this woman's credibility depends on her being seen as such an authoritative voice that she SHOULD speak on behalf of a group of people she doesn't belong to.
EDITED TO ADD: And... whoa. Seems I missed one.
Sheila Jeffreys is my hero, at The Longest War.
I'm going to quote this one in its entirety. It's just too offensive to NOT quote.
Found this online today in the category of so-called sex-positive feminist women (aka sex workers and the faux sexually liberated) misusing Professor Sheila Jeffreys as their target in fighting against others who are true feminists opposed to men sexually exploiting women (image of "Sheila ain't my sister" bag)
Just like peace at any price, sex at any price cannot be good. In the longest war, pitting one group of women against another has been an effective divide-and-conquer strategy, aided by much media manipulation. The anti-Sheila blogger indicates that she keeps adjusting her medication (which would necessarily affect her consciousness). Psych-drugs and shrinks as a weapon of mass deception against women in man’s longest war, yes, oh, yes, but that would be another post.
The contrasting, true-to-freedom image is this one posted by Allecto at Gorgon Poisons (image of "Sheila is my sister" graphic)
Sex on men’s terms, devastating to women because there’s a real (if undeclared) war going on. To end man’s war against womankind may take men not just doing laundry and ending non-sexual violence, but practicing celibacy as a commitment to not exploiting women. Real celibacy, not what Catholic priests pretend to do. Unless men wise up and take better action, Mother Nature might just wipe men out and leave women with procreative parthenogenesis. Life will go on, with or without men.
I’m proposing celibacy for bi and het-sex men (any men born as men interested in sexual relations with women) as the ground of being to expand male consciousness as a pathway toward real peace. Celibacy for this group of people would mean that no woman would be sexually exploited by any xy-chromosome humanoid while a lasting peace is sought through heightened awareness for all. Peace at any price? No. But peace may come if we can see the chronic global misogyny without denial, and break free from male-dominant global culture. Sheila Jeffreys is my hero.
Jeebus. Where to start? The standard "faux feminists vs REALLY TRUE feminists" false binary is taken to a new level when the author flatly states that "sex workers" as a class fit into "so called feminists", and are of course presented as actively opposed to the REALLY TRUE feminists. I, the "anti-Sheila blogger", have accusations of false consciousness levelled at me again, this time because I take psychiatric medication. Nice little touch, that, minimising someone's words because of their disability.
That's some extremely messed up shit. Uh, those who object to my original post and want to claim sisterhood with Sheila Jeffreys? Can you please take this one as well?
27 comments:
Wow. I don't really have anything to say except a general "whut?!" in the direction of all those posters.
The shutting down due to disability thing = all class.
If that's what "real feminism" is, I don't want to be associated with it.
Yeah, that last post is in a class of its own, I think. Classy indeed.
I don't have a whole lot to say about this except that I find these kinds of attacks on those who disagree with (particular kinds of) rad feminism astonishing, condescending and politically entirely problematic. I'm sorry you've been on the receiving end, hexy, and especially that, like you say, the usual false consciousness line has been cheerfully married to an anti-disability sensibility. It makes me hurty all over; I can only imagine what it's like to have it directed at you.
Also, I'm in Sydney; any way I can get hold of one of those bags? I meant to ask earlier, but this makes me think that carrying one around could be just a Really Good Thing.
I don't see ALL of those posts as "attacks" on me, although the attitude in the comment threads clearly isn't being squashed. The others, though, are pretty clear about their intents.
I'm a little surprised this is popping up so long after I posted that!
Unfortunately all those bags are gone, but I shall certainly post the next time there's screen-printed gear to be sold :)
Yeah, that last post is in a class of its own, I think. especially seeing as how the author is a dude, whose main contribution to the Battle is apparently to suck up to separatist radfems* and vow to withhold his precious bodily fluids from teh poor exploited wimminz. which all other men should join him in. see. he can "no longer wield his spear." srsly.
also, Kyle Payne may have been a plant of the Patriarcheh (Inc).
*I'm starting to think there should be a wider study of this phenomenon, rarefied though it is. "Radfems Who Want Nothing To Do With Men And The Men Who Worship Them (But In A Totally Nonsexual and Noncreepy Way, Really)"
Wield... his... spear...
0_o
It all comes down to the definition of sex worker. The vast majority of those who work in the sex industry are exploited/ prostituted. Those women aren't going to be attending conferences. The laws Jeffreys talks about impact upon them as well as sex workers (I'm aware there isn't a crystal clear binary between the two, more like a spectrum, with an obvious difference between hexy and a trafficked woman imprisoned in a brothel).
Belledame, I don't think you'll be able to find a large enough sample group for that study (though the guy hexy quoted is a bit worrisome, at least in that post). Maybe you should try one on pornsick males who use sex-pos arguments to justify their support of the porn industry. That's a much larger group. :P
Snark aside, women who care about and work to help other women are my sisters. That includes hexy, belledame and Sheila.
It all comes down to the definition of sex worker. The vast majority of those who work in the sex industry are exploited/ prostituted. While I certainly do not deny that some are exploited in the sex industry, your use of "vast majority" is quite simply incorrect, especially when discussing the Australian sex industry.
The laws Jeffreys talks about impact upon them as well as sex workers (I'm aware there isn't a crystal clear binary between the two, more like a spectrum, with an obvious difference between hexy and a trafficked woman imprisoned in a brothel).Jeffreys' position on migrant sex work (and the incorrect idea she presents of all or even most migrant sex workers being "trafficking victims") has been opposed by migrant sex worker groups both here and in their countries of origin.
Snark aside, women who care about and work to help other women are my sisters. That includes hexy, belledame and Sheila.Good on you! I may not agree with you on the positive nature of Jeffreys' work on sex worker issues, but I will agree that she seems to have the best of intentions. I simply can't consider that to be enough when it negatively affects sex working women.
I certainly prefer your definition of sisterhood to some I've heard. Thanks for commenting. :)
God dammit. Blogger no longer recognising empty lines after closed HTML tags is pissing me off.
I don't know the specifics of the Australian sex industry, but every study I've read says that the vast majority (80%- 97% Depending on the conditions) of women who work in prostitution in the Western world don't want to. (And there is a difference between having sex when you don't want to and mopping floors when you don't want to before someone uses that argument.)
Thus as I see it, leaving aside issues such as drug addiction, underage prostitution, trafficking and coercion, men as a group are using women's subordinate economic opportunities to exploit them. (And then they enact laws that punish the women, which compunds the crappiness of the situation.)
I recognise those figures. You must be aware that their source is hardly non-controversial.
I can't speak for the sex industry in any other country, as my exposure to the facts, figures and people involved is very Australo-centric. But here, sex workers consistently reject the idea that we need out of the industry, and present our biggest problems as criminalistion, stigma and discrimination, and similar. Happiness in the industry varies from state to state, and matches up fairly neatly with decriminalisation and a lack of imposed hurdles from above.
Thus as I see it, leaving aside issues such as drug addiction, underage prostitution, trafficking and coercion, men as a group are using women's subordinate economic opportunities to exploit them. (And then they enact laws that punish the women, which compunds the crappiness of the situation.)I disagree with your analysis, but I'm sure that's not a surprise.
ohhh my god. I'm glad you are so diplomatic, that shit made me glad that I'm a cursed tranny and therefore an enemy to rad fems everywhere. That last dude is like...unbel-fucking-eivable. Abstinence for straight and bi men, wha? Somebody get him a copy of the program because he's obviously missing the point of the show
Yes, SJ's transphobia really shouldn't be as invisible as it is in this discussion...
I realise you probably don't want to have a argument with another radfem, so I'll just show you my sources, tell you how awesome your blog is, and disappear.
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/c-prostitution-facts.html
http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/09/28/exited-prostitute-how-many-women-do-we-have-to-sacrifice-before-we-reach-the-tipping-point-how-many-womens-lives-are-too-much/
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2007/09/13/so-thats-why-all-the-morons-think-prostitution-is-an-empowerfuling-career-choice/
Couldn't find the rest. (I added you to my blogroll, if that's alright.)
Of course it's alright! Thank you for your contributions, you've been nothing but pleasant, and I hope you keep commenting in future.
Others have written better than I can on why Melissa Farley's figures are deeply flawed, and it goes a step beyond those reasons to try and apply them to the Australian sex industry. If you wish, I can track down some of the pieces that examine this, although I'm about to head offline until at least tomorrow.
"so-called sex-positive feminist women (aka sex workers and the faux sexually liberated)" - Oh GOD that fucking kills me. I cannot STAND that shit, I really can't.
You're not alone there, Caroline.
WOW.
That is all I can say without my post degenerating into expletives.
Simply. F'n. WOW.
Especially for the last quote....does this...gentleman...realize that he has just condemned every single man in this universe (let alone all of humankind, unless he develops an alternative means of reproduction for women without het sex)?? Probably not, since he has basically swallowed every bit of the GenderBorg's ideology right down to his knees.
And of course, the very fact of your existence as a sex worker, let alone your gall in opposing Jeffreys' nonsense as not representing all women, heaven forbid all feminists, is deemed as "censorship", "silencing", even physically threatening "radical feminists". So damn typical.
I'm about to break out a post at the SmackChron on all this shit, and the comparison with the similar deifying of Rush Limbaugh on the conventional Right. As soon as my blood pressure drops back to somewhat close to normal, that is.
Anthony
The dissonance between your original posts and most of these responses to it is bizarre. Who's the one being attacked and silenced here?
Hexy,
Sorry they're targeting you like this.
I think it's really problematic especially to set things up in such a way that the majority of women in sex work are assumed to be unable to speak for themselves or exert any agency on their own behalf.
Anthony: Drop me a comment when it goes up.
Tigtog: You noticed that too, huh?
Lisa: I couldn't agree more.
Hexy...ended up doing not one but THREE posts on this; mostly as a comparison/contrast between the near cult worship of Shelia Jeffreys among antiporn radfems and the similar "worship" of Rush Limbaugh on the conventional Far Right.
The SmackDog Chronicles: Rush Limbaugh And Shelia Jeffreys: Two Fascists And The Cults That Sustain Them (Part 1)The SmackDog Chronicles: The Rush Limbaugh/Shelia Jeffreys Cult Comparison/Contrast, Part Deux (Or Why Shelia Will NEVER Be My Sister)I also added a bonus post on our friend from The Longest War....what a tool he is.
The SmackDog Chronicles: Bonus GenderBorg Lunacy: A Plea For Male Celibacy...From A MAN!?!Anthony
WOW how gross, especially the mental illness bit.
Hexy, I don't usually leave me-too comments, but I don't have much to add to the other words of support. Except that I want you to know I admire how cool-headed you've been through this.
Also: that last fellow you quoted is welcome to pursue celibacy - for himself! That would solve a number of problems, I think.
Hey, Sungold. Thanks for the comment :)
I can't take too much credit for the cool-headed... at the point where I lost my temper, Blogger actually stopped working temporarily and I couldn't approve any comments! The gods of the internet seem to be with me ;)
Great post hexy, and kudos to you for being able to unpack all this in such a non-defensive manner.. and what tigtog said, in essence.
Thanks, blue milk :)
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